Eternal

Dissatisfaction Over Template Change

Just adding my voice to the din, I hate the new template change from post combat main to second main on every card, which is very functional errata on cards like Neheb the Eternal. It nerfs a lot of things in extra combat decks. Entirely too many things are once per turn these days, there's no need to change to older cards to that too.

There are a lot of things to juggle when changing terminology. The impact on a single card often isn’t as important as other gains made.

Errata Eternal Functional Errata Once Per Turn Second Main Phase Templating

Potential for Eternal Un-Reprints

Could suitable un-cards get eternal "un-reprints"? That is, using a new name but identical abilities, like was the plan for Tammy, Power Gamer, and using a variant on Universes Within's "=SLD" label to mark that the cards are equivalent for casual games despite having different tournament legality. Would that be viable?

We clearly can make the same cards with a new name (if the card works within the rules). I’m more skeptical we’d use the Universe’s Within “same card” tech.

Casual Play Eternal Gamers Rules Timmy / Tammy Un-sets

Prizes in Non-acorn Attractions

I'm interested in why there is only one non-acorn attraction that you can claim a prize from. Was this unintentional or was there a reason?

The cards were designed a ways before the decision to make the ones that could be Eternal legal, Eternal legal, so we just converted what we could. The main criteria at determining Eternal legality was “can it work in the rules?”. The one wrinkle was the Teddy Bear token that was a prize for some Attractions was pink and the rules don’t handle pink as a color. We’d already made the token and were using Water Gun Balloon Game as a promo and it also used the same pink Teddy Bear token which kept us from changing its color.

Attractions Balloons Bears Colors Eternal Promos Rules Teddies Tokens Water Gun Balloon Game

Eternal Formats Existence

Maybe it's a bit of a reductionist view, but at a larger timeframe, eternal formats don't really exist. They thrive for a time and are then replaced by something else. Legacy replaced Vintage, Modern replaced Legacy, one day Pioneer will replace Modern and after that, new formats will be born. Yes, there are still Vintage and Legacy players, but at a macro scale, the percentage of players is shrinking.
I think it is very okay to accept this as a fact of the game.

The word “eternal” is a poor choice as we use “eternal” to mean formats with access to (mostly) all the cards. Vintage, Legacy, and Commander are all eternal formats. So eternal formats do exist. : )But your larger point of how Magic keeps shifting where it focuses its formats is true.

Commander Eternal Humor Legacy Modern Pioneer Vintage Thrive

Vocabulary Differences between Designers and Players

I think the issue on the power creep discussion is that you're using vocab from a game designer pov. Whereas players are talking about a practical pov. Overall power level might not increase when we look at eash standard release. But it obviously impacts eternal formats much diffrently. In those formats, the ebb and flow of power level from each standard release makes the top end in each release last forever. Because there are more realeases, obsolecense is becomming a real issue.

I’m not trying to ignore the larger issue being discussed. The choice to make sets that are designed for higher power level formats increases the influx of relevant cards for the format which speeds up the format churn. That churn is a real issue, and I’m happy to talk about things that can and can’t be done to address it. (For example, the data shows that’s it’s a polarizing issue - some enjoy the churn, so it’s a complex issue.)As this is my blog to discuss design issues, I’m using designer language and am going to refer to the problem as “format churn” and “relevant card influx” as those are the actual issues at hand. External to my blog, players can refer to things as whatever they like. Call TDFCs “flip cards”. On this blog, that causes confusion, so I’m calling them TDFCs.Design blog -> designer language.

Blogatog / Tumblr Eternal Flip Cards Power Level Standard Your Hand

Concerns Over 'Power Creep'

Hi Mark,Regarding "Card Churn", "Power Increase", or whatever you want to call it, do you consider what most enfranchised players incorrectly call "power creep" to be a problem or not really?Is it something that can be mitigated? Is this something you are working on? Why or why not?Personally, I choose to play with friends that avoid strategies and an optimization mentality that emphasizes recent excessively "power increase" aspects of eternal formats like Commander, but that's easier said then done for many players and play groups.It's a complicated issue because players do like playing with powerful cards and players get excited about new powerful cards but many players don't enjoy playing against powerful cards as much. So when Magic suddenly starts introducing more powerful cards at a higher frequency, that can fundamentally affect people's game play experiences.What do you think about this as Head Game Designer? Is this an issue or is it the player's responsibility to solve?

If you don’t like formats that increase in power over time, consider formats that have rotation built into them, or use only a limited subset of cards, like limited formats or cubes.The only thing we control in nonrotating formats is how quickly the churn happens, not if churn will happen.

Commander Eternal Experienced / Enfranchised Players Game Play Limited Power Level

Power Creep and Format Change

Concerning power creep, there may be a comparison and distinction to be made between distorting a format and adding relevant cards to a format. If a card is relevant, it shows up in decks, right? Maybe even a lot of decks. That's good for a format-relevant product. Otherwise, why even make the product?But then what is the delineating mark between format change (good) and format distortion (bad)?One could argue that Serra Angel is an example of format change. Arguably obsolete, nobody is really objecting to the card's irrelevance in eternal formats.So. What is that dividing line? Is formst chsnge just 'distortion over time'? I would argue that healthful change is oft misperceived as power creep, but it took a lot of cards in Commander before we figured out that '2 MV ramp and repeating value' were the prime culprits in accelerating the casual format beyond its 'battlecruiser Magic' roots.I'm not making a big argument one way or another, just trying to stimulate a brain or two..

For starters you’re not using “power creep” as I use it on this blog, but for the sake of saying the same thing for the tenth time, I understand you mean the increase of cards impacting older environments. You bring up the other thing we haven’t been talking about. Card influx talks in neutral terms. Add N relevant cards and impact the environment a particular amount. The faster you add N, the quicker it changes. The sets designed for older formats aren’t adding in cards neutrally though. They are adding in suites of cards built around particular mechanical themes. Adding in whole suites of cards changes environments more quickly as the threshold to make a deck theme relevant gets hit more quickly. That’s the other big impact of designing for a format. It causes you to impact it faster as you are designing whole swaths of mechanical pieces, not just cards. That’s very relevant to the topic at hand.

Angels Blogatog / Tumblr Casual Play Commander Eternal Mana Value Power Level Threshold Your Hand Serra Angel

Token Creation and Design Validity

I remember during GDS2 one of the designers had a mechanic that created a token that was a copy of the creature with swapped P/T. One of the complaints was it meant too many tokens would need to be made.
Now we have offspring, embalm, and eternalize. Does that make the complaints for the design less valid?

The bar to do so is high, but lower than it once was.

Creatures Embalm Eternalize Mechanics Tokens

Tokens and Counters in Bloomburrow

Does Bloomburrow have more unique tokens and counters in total than Fallen Empires? Seems really close.

Offspring, embalm, and eternalize create a unique token for each creature with the mechanic, so it pumps up the number of tokens. It wouldn’t surprise me if it passes Fallen Empires.

Bloomburrow Creatures Embalm Eternalize Mechanics Tokens

Avoiding Power Creep in Eternal Formats

I understand that you can keep power level stable in standard - as sets rotate, the new ones keep the same power level. And any outlier cards will eventually rotated out. But how can you avoid power creep in eternal formats. More so, is it even desirable from q business point of view - I mean why would players be excited and buy cards if they keep their current ones the power of their decks would stay the same? I guess maybe supporting brew kinds of decks at the same power? It seems like an interesting problem. I’d appreciate any insights you have on this. Thanks.

Power level will rise as more cards enter the system. That’s not power creep though. All your sets can have an identical power level and formats that never rotate cards up will rise in power.It’s the nature of older formats. It’s why R&D pushed rotating formats for so long. Because we can keep those at roughly a similar power level.

Eternal Power Level Standard

Reason for Tokens Keeping Mana Costs

Why was it decided that the tokens created by offspring would keep their mana costs, unlike the tokens created by embalm/eternalize?

It was a templating decision to lessen the word count, I believe.

Embalm Eternalize Mana Templating Tokens

Eternal Planeswalkers Variations

Are the eternal planeswalkers all just reprints? Or can we expect new cards, maybe ones that might appeal better to new players that we introduce to the game with the set?

In the panel, they said it was a mix of new and returning.

Beginners Card Printing Eternal Planeswalkers Reprints

Presence of Battles in Foundation

Are there battles in foundation. If battles become evergreen then they should have representation in a corse set. One of the weaknesses of an eternal set is that it has less flux with changing design philosophies

Battles aren’t evergreen.

Evergreen Eternal Battles

Purpose of Eternal Planeswalkers

What is the point of eternal planeswalkers? Is there an effect you need on five planeswalkers for Foundations? Should foundations have planeswalkers at all?

Planeswalkers are core to Magic, so yes, the introductory product should have them.

Eternal Foundations Planeswalkers

Request for Mono-Blue Spell

May I please request a mass blink/flicker spell with a mono blue color identity?There multiple versions of this effect that are mono white (i.e. Another Round, Semester's End, Ghostway, Eerie Interlude) and there have been some that have White and Blue color identity too (i.e. Brago, King Eternal, Disorder in the Court, Yorion, Sky Nomad). It would be really nice to have some that are mono blue for Commander purposes!

White is primary in flickering and blue is secondary, so mass flickering is more a white thing. That doesn’t mean blue can never get it, but it needs the right set.

Another Round Blue Brago, King Eternal Color Identity Commander Disorder in the Court Eerie Interlude Eternal Ghostway Nomad Primary Secondary Semester's End White Yorion, Sky Nomad

Possibility of Magic Reboot

Do you think magic would ever/could ever reboot? Is there a point where "eternal world" becomes too much?

There’s too much inertia, so I’m skeptical.

Eternal

Reengaging with the Game

Hi, I just got back into magic through commander after not collecting since I was a child when mirrodin and darkseel were in print (i always wanted to do something with gemini engine). I just wanted to stop by and say i have been loving the new sets (and that it's astonishing you find the time to answer so many asks on tumblr). I wasn't expecting to enjoy outlaws for flavor reasons but had a blast playing limited UW control. LCI and MH3 were also amazing. I'm greatly looking forward to drafting bloomburrow!Also wow, Warren soultrader is a wild card for eternal formats.

Welcome back. Glad to hear you’re enjoying the designs.

Blogatog / Tumblr Bloomburrow Card Printing Commander Eternal Flavor Gemini Engine Limited Mirrodin Modern Horizons 3 The Lost Caverns of Ixalan Warren Soultrader

Understanding Power Creep

I have seen you occasionally state that players don't understand what 'power creep' really is. Is it possible that you have 'power creep' too narrowly defined so that you can maintain a position that it doesn't exist, while the commonly and broadly held definition (cards trend towards being more powerful in the present than those that came before, isolated examples notwithstanding) could actually exist and be true?I ask only because as a Limited player it seems self-evident that the average power level of cards has trended up over time, and I struggle to internalize that power creep isn't happening unless we are choosing to limit our definition of power creep in a way that is counterintuitive to our normal sense of what that means.I should add, I don't actually take any issue with power creep were it to exist, I'm just trying to better understand the claim that it does not.

Power creep is an actual term used in game design, so I’m going by the technical definition. Imagine there are ten sets, Set A through Set J. For power creep to be happening, each set has to be overall higher in power level than the set that comes before it. The practical effect of that is that Set B obsoletes Set A. Set C obsoletes Set B. By the time Set J comes out, none of the early sets have playable cards. That’s just not true with Magic. There are powerful cards throughout the history of Magic, including the early years, that get played in eternal formats.The issue at hand, I believe, is that designing for a format creates more churn in that format. Designing for Modern has sped up the speed at which relevant cards enter the system, and thus the pace at which the metagame shifts. Players are used to that in Standard, but it’s a relatively new thing for Modern, because we didn’t design sets for it until recently. Players are used to thinking of Modern as a slowly rotating format. My point is we’re technically not power creeping, we’re increasing format flow by making more cards relevant for that format. From a game design standpoint, those are different things.This isn’t to say that players aren’t upset, or that increasing card flow (aka designing for Modern) isn’t something players can be critical of. I’m just explaining what is technically happening.

Eternal Game Design Limited Modern Power Level Standard Your Hand

Reskinning Existing Magic Cards

Hi! This is sort of a random question about the reskins we've seen with universes beyond cards vs. functional reprints to change the flavor of an in-universe card to another in-universe card (like llanowar elves vs. fyndhorn elves). I could run Paths of the Dead (from LOTR commander) in a standard deck, since it *is* cavern of souls. I could not, however, run fyndhorn elves in place of llanowar elves in one of the formats where llanowar elves is legal but fyndhorn elves isn't. The tradeoff to this is that in commander, I can run one fyndhorn elves and one llanowar elves, since they're not the same card, but I can't run a Paths of the Dead and a Cavern of Souls from another printing (ex. LCI), since they're the same card. Would it be possible to print in-universe cards as reskins instead of functional reprints to change the flavor? For example, say you're designing a faction set with tri-color factions, and you want to use the triome lands with cycling, but you're not on Ikoria/New Capenna, so the names don't really fit. If you did a functional reprint to change the flavor, then players in eternal formats could double the number of triomes they run. Is reskinning the card an option you have at your disposal for this kind of situation?

Reskinning is an option, but a resource we want to be careful with.

Card Printing Cavern of Souls Commander Cycling Elf Eternal Factions Flavor Fyndhorn Elves Lands Llanowar Elves Reprints Standard The Lost Caverns of Ixalan Universes Beyond

Limited Environment Design

Hi Mark,from reading your blog I've gathered that most of tour time and focus is spent on making cohesive and engaging limited environments since those are essentially the main products being sold and also, that Magic's most popular way to play is an "eternal" format; kitchen table or commander.First, is this a correct assessment? Second, could you give me some insight on how one informs the other?Thank-you

I, and the other vision designers, set the vision for the set which involves creating a structure, choosing themes, and creating mechanics. We also design cards, some of which make it to print. That work applies to all formats. Limited is the biome which amplifies all of the above loudest.

Card Printing Casual Play Commander Eternal Limited Mechanics