Vindicate

Game Complexity Concerns

New 29 Feb 2024 Asked by theadonalsium 72 Comments

Echoing what that other guy said, I have felt a rise in complexity recently. With so many new cards that not only make you read and remember what they do, but what the tokens they make do, then what the tokens that that token makes does, it really adds to the mental load. Some examples would be Ring Tempts You, daybound/nightbound, initiative, Venture into the dungeon, stickers, attractions, and many more.
For instance, had a vindicate, and was debating between killing Frodo, sauron’s bane and Nahar, selfless paladin, I would have to read a total of 6 cards. Each of the original creatures, plus the 3 dungeons and the Ring card. And this problem gets worse the more effects you add on, many of which don’t go away as the game continues. If someone introduces the initiative, I now have to worry about nahar exploring the underdark. This scaling complexity as the game continues now means there’s an insane amount layers of the game, which while fun, is also very daunting, and somewhat of a headache.If nothing else, I’d really like if “reading the card explains the card” was true, not “reading the card, then the three different extra cards that it makes explains the card”I do appreciate your listening, and generally a lot of the new stuff has been cool. However, this push for many “outside the game” mechanics is not great for paper play, and I would prefer less of it.


Here’s the core problem. A huge part of Magic is that we keep making new cards. When we do that, the audience wants new mechanics. (Market research shows again and again that one of the biggest draws to new sets is new mechanics.) We’re thirty years in. We’ve made a *lot* of mechanics, so we have to go to new spaces to make new things. It’s not as if there’s lots of simple, elegant, non-complex design space that we’re actively choosing not to do.What this means is if you want to play constructed formats that don’t rotate, complexity will rise with time. There’s literally no way around this. Every new card we create, every new mechanic we make, every set we put out adds complexity to the system. So if you’re finding the mental load too much, there are ways to play Magic where this isn’t an issue. Limited formats and rotating constructed formats limit complexity. Or you can choose to build your decks such that you focus on less mechanics you have to track.That said, I don’t think there’s a way for me to do my job (aka keep designing new things) that isn’t going to raise complexity. We can look at how many things we add to any one set. Maybe slow down the rise in complexity a little. But can we do so in a way that the audience is getting what they want? I’m not sure.One of the mechanics I get asked most to bring back is mutate, and that’s confusing even without the rest of Magic, so there are many forces pulling in different directions.I do like hearing the specific things that cause you all problems, because it’s possible I can figure out the style of designs that cause people problems. But the idea that we just stop making mechanics that reference things not on the card is a tough one given where Magic design technology is currently at.I do appreciate all the input, and I hope the dialogue helps me better understand what specific things are causing problems.

Vindicate Reprint Possibility

New 15 Jan 2024 Asked by fedacking 27 Comments

I love the original flavor text for Vindicate in Apocalypse. I would really enjoy to see a reprint that includes it. Is that possible, considering it references Gerard?


It limits where we could do it, but there are places.

Vindicate Effects Expansion

New 20 Jun 2022 Asked by su92 31 Comments

You've mentioned before that you want "Destroy target permanent" and "Destroy target nonland permanent" to stay in white-black and black-green even if other combinations can do it now. But Hidetsugu Consumes All destroys all nonland permanents with MV 1 or less. Does that open the door for variations or subsets of Vindicate effects in other color combinations?


We can explore subsets.

Effect of Monocolor Vindicate

New 25 Apr 2022 Asked by jimhensonreject 50 Comments

If you had to do a straight up break and make a monocolor vindicate, what color would it do the least damage in?


White, but it’s not something we should ever do.

Misconceptions about Green's Abilities

New 24 Apr 2022 Asked by natew000 39 Comments

Considering that Regrowth is mechanically able to get card types that green usually doesn’t care about, it seems to me that without the flavor of the card Regrowth, the effect might be only allowed in multicolor that same way that Vindicate is a multicolor effect. I could imagine a world where both Regrowth and Demonic Tutor were only allowed in multicolor in modern Magic.


There seems to be this misunderstanding that green doesn’t get interact with various card types. Every color interacts with all the card types in their own way. One of those ways for green is through the graveyard. Green is the scavenging color.

RB and Vindicate Effects

New 24 Nov 2021 Asked by rahasya 38 Comments

Now that black can destroy enchantments, can rb do vindicate effects?


We’re limiting how many color combinations can do that, so mostly no.

Powerful Effect Limitations

New 20 Jun 2021 Asked by corillion 36 Comments

Hi MaRo, thanks for all your hard work making Magic. Both Control Magic and Time Walk effects are massively powerful, with Time Walks getting banned even at 7 mana. Is it possible that these effects should get the "Vindicate treatment" of being only doable with two colours?


A second color isn’t the safety valve you think it is. : )

White's Vindicate Query

New 29 Oct 2019 Asked by maria-human-was-taken 45 Comments

If white can get "destroy target creature", could Vindicate be printed in white?


No. White doesn’t get “destroy target land” nor “destroy target Planeswalker”.

Vindicate Effects Query

New 19 Oct 2019 Asked by nezumibloodeyes 25 Comments

Could vindicate-style effects be WR? If not, what permanent type is the pair missing?


Neither gets “destroy target planeswalker”.

Casual Gameplay Dynamics

New 09 Feb 2019 Asked by bloodstonegoth 32 Comments

I'm pretty sure you've stated casual Magic is the most popular "format", so blue having answer to absolutely everything (starting with Counterspell, where Vindicate effects need at least two colors) is an issue that affects the majority of players.


It’s not an issue of casual versus competitive. It’s 40 starting life versus 20 starting life and most casual games start at 20 life.

Beast Within Opinion

New 03 Jun 2017 Asked by macgyvercas-deactivated20171221 25 Comments

Beast Within! It's Vindicate, but better! Because I run it in Living End. In case you couldn't tell, I'm firmly in Camp Yes To Beast Within.


I’m fine with the effect. It’s just not monogreen.

Vindicate's Color Identity

New 18 Jan 2017 Asked by kytheon-hero-of-akros 27 Comments

Why isn't Vindicate also in Golgari colors? Green has "destroy target noncreature permanent" and black has "destroy target creature". Among gold cards, there's a GB precedent in "destroy target nonland permanent" and "destroy target land"


“Destroy target permanent *is* in Golgari (Black/Green) color’s.

Vindicate Trivia

New 15 Jan 2017 Asked by eduardovitalchaves 50 Comments

Today's my birthday. Could you give me a trivia about the card Vindicate from Apocalypse. It's one of the cards I like most :D


Vindicate came about because I spent years complaining about Desert Twister, the monoGreen card from Arabian Nights that destroyed target permanent. If the ability wasn’t monoGreen (because Green shouldn’t be able to kill creatures outright), what color was it? No single color I said and made Vindicate to show what colors it could be. (Black/Green being the one other color pair.)Happy Birthday!

Colorless Vindicate Concerns

New 13 Jun 2016 Asked by roborosewater 21 Comments

How would a 6-mana colorless Vindicate undercut the color wheel? It would still cost 2-3 more mana than a colored permanent destruction spell.


The line we draw for that effect is 7. It’s not something we wish to push.

Story vs. Immersion

New 11 May 2016 Asked by alexbullett 50 Comments

Do you feel focusing on story means losing a sense of immersion? When playing a Lightning Bolt, I feel like I'm the one casting it. When playing a card like Vindicate I get a sense of the story. But I no longer feel like I'm making the action happen and it takes me out of the game.


There’s a balance. I agree it’s tricky.

Utter End vs Vindicate

New 19 Oct 2014 Asked by ghallberg 32 Comments

A wile back you said that Utter End's costing tells us Vindicate is too cheap for standard. Doesn't the Instant speed and exiling kind of make up for the increase in mana cost?


There is a significant difference between a slightly more powerful four drop and a three drop.

Request for Vindicate

New 05 Sep 2014 Asked by keith-cancel 42 Comments

Utter End is a bit upsetting can we just have vindicate back again?


Development considers Vindicate too strong for Standard. Partly because it costs three mana, partly because it can target lands.

Vindicate Reprint Possibility

New 09 Aug 2014 Asked by andromeda-mini 12 Comments

Hi, Mark! Since you said it's OK for us Question Marks to resend questions left unanswered, here it goes: is there a chance that Vindicate will ever get reprinted in a regular set or core set, or is considered too powerful for Standard/Modern?


Not a developer but my gut is it’s a little too strong for Standard.

Cross-Color Mechanics

New 21 Jul 2014 Asked by abalidoth 13 Comments

Can a card in color A with a color B activation have an effect that is only in AB's gold pie that neither A nor B can do alone? Like a white card with a black activated Vindicate.


That’s not how we do it. The black activated ability would do something monoblack could do.

Vindicate Card Mechanics

New 18 Jul 2014 Asked by captainjackharness 24 Comments

About Vindicate: Black kills creatures, white (used to) kill Enchantments and Artifacts. Where does killing Lands and Planeswalkers come into that?


Black can destroy lands and planeswalkers. White can still destroy artifacts and enchantments just not as efficiently as it once could.


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