Historic

On Permanents Cohesion and Batching

New 23 Jun 2024 Asked by pontemosca 4 Comments

For me, the historic batch is the best as it ties together different kinds of permanents in a cohesive way, which blows my mind. Outlaw was great in limited, but seems less impressive.


Batching is a tool that we can use in different ways. That’s the value of a good design tool.

Historic's Impact on Legendary Cards

New 21 Jun 2024 Asked by bdiasf 14 Comments

Does the success of historic help the Legendary Instants/Sorceries?


Not really.

Commander Mode in Arena

New 29 May 2024 Asked by zombsidian 37 Comments

Also, Commander is the most popular played format in tabletop. I believe Standard is still the most popular format played on digital.

Do you think this might be because Arena doesn't have a standardized Commander mode, and instead utilizes Historic Brawl as a close comparison?


That might play into it, but I assume the main reason is the desire for fast, competitive, one-on-one play.

Complexity of Batching Sizes

New 23 Apr 2024 Asked by intethesis 38 Comments

Re: Creature batchingI'm a big fan of the creature batching, even using it in a custom cube I designed. However, I feel that 5 creature types is a lot of creatures to be batched. The three types of "historic" feels like a good number, and when playtesting my batches at three types, my cube-r's felt that if there were more then it'd be too convoluted.What size of batches do you think is too much from a complexity standpoint?


Batches are two to five items with three being the sweet spot. The more flavorfully intuitive, the larger it can be.

Mechanic Implementation

New 16 Apr 2024 Asked by gamma-3 48 Comments

I know you can't refer to batches mechanically, but if you needed to, could you write out "Historic creatures you control get . The same is true for outlaws, creatures in your party..."?


We not only can, we have. For example:

Complex Batch Possibility

New 28 Mar 2024 Asked by zacharyporterblr 31 Comments

Can a Batch include a Batch? For example could we ever get a word that means outlaws and/or historic.


I’ll call it unlikely. Modern Horizons is where something like that would happen if it ever does.

Historic Format Challenges

New 10 Mar 2024 Asked by aceofmoxes 27 Comments

"Formats that use all thirty years worth of cards are more prone to shine a light on that issue" (color breaks and bends) Is this an issue to be fixed in the future or a permanent flaw in the game?


It’s hard to fix mistakes of the past with new cards.

Unique Card Abilities

New 09 Mar 2024 Asked by doopboopdoop 21 Comments

Could a card ever have an ability to make itself part of a bach like a non artifact creature saying it's historic


I don’t think the rules support that.

Batching Limitations

New 09 Mar 2024 Asked by romanoffblitzer 38 Comments

What's the maximum number of different things you're willing to include in a single batch? (Like how historic has three things)


Four or five.

Historic Matters Discarded

New 08 Mar 2024 Asked by pleaseburger 36 Comments

Was "Historic Matters" ever a part of Kamigawa Neon Dynasty's design? Looking back, it seems like it would've been a perfect fit for a set all about old stories (sagas) and new technology (artifacts), and there wasn't exactly a draught of legendary creatures. If it was cut, what for?


We talked about it, but it was an odd fit. Here was the core issue. It represented the idea of tradition (history is looking at the past), but it worked better with the modernity side, which was focused on artifacts.

Historic Criticism Parallels

New 08 Mar 2024 Asked by vedney 47 Comments

Did people have the same flavour complaints about thopters and gnomes being historic during Dominaria, as people do about some stuff being or not being crimes?


Players always have complaints. : )

Mechanic Reminder Text

New 04 Mar 2024 Asked by eomund42 32 Comments

I think one of the reasons people are grouping "commit a crime" with the external play-piece mechanics instead of batching mechanics is that the one card we've seen with it (Oko) doesn't have reminder text. I know there are a lot of things to juggle when choosing preview cards, but the lack of reminder text makes "commit a crime" feel like a new vocabulary term that has to be memorized. Will there be reminder text on most cards, like there was for Historic?


Yes, most cards will have reminder text.

Keyword Fatigue Feedback

New 03 Mar 2024 Asked by thegreatklaid 116 Comments

Im just gonna say I know my community is beyond sick of all these new keywords and actions and whatever you wanna call them. Like all excitement for Thunder Junction was sucked out the window when we read the phrase "commit a crime". Because we knew it was gonna grind another dozen games to a halt as we were going to have to look up the exact phrasing, because somebody was going to make some weird play. The same as its been with discover, and historic, and reconfigure. I've even had to stop and explain surveil. Even playing a precon took way longer because I had to essentially keep one card in my hand to make sure I was doing disguise right. And keep explaining it. And while I am it, ward. We had to reiterate all weekend what ward did, so people knew "cant be countered" got around it. And these are tournament players Mr. Rosewater. Some of us have been playing since 93. You cannot get more ingrained than our community. And we are so ingrained we know nothing can change for years. We know how design works. But we are begging you. Soon, please. Stop with the keywords. Just put the text on the card. None of us like having to pull out our phones to add more text to the effects.


The text for all non-evergreen mechanics *is* on the card, with the sole exception of a few high rarity cards where the reminder text doesn’t fit. And that’s been true for decades.

Historic Mechanic Query

New 03 Mar 2024 Asked by doopboopdoop 14 Comments

Why was Historic not in your top 20 mechanics? Wasn't it key in the creation of batching?


It was on my short list.

Vocabulary Fatigue Issue

New 03 Mar 2024 Asked by olmbutch 47 Comments

hey mark! recently people I know have been expressing issues with what I'm calling "vocabulary fatigue". Wizards has been recently utilizing a lot of very flavorful mechanic names and ability words, which is something i myself appreciate, as someone who plays a lot of limited and only needs to focus on a few of them at a time, but a lot of my friends are saying is making their experience with the recent sets worse, because they have to remember what cards do when it isn't super obvious from their actual text. In the past year or so we've had a lot of new "action batching" mechanics (by which i mean vocabulary that references a specific action or kind of action so that cards can more easily care about that action without spelling the action out every time) such as "the ring tempts you", "decend", "commit a crime", "collect evidence", "suspect", and "face a villainous choice" as opposed to older magic sets, which didn't deal with this design space as much. although other mechanics in the same vein exist, like Monsterous, their prolificness in the last year or so feels like complexity creep.Although the names are flavorful and saving on card space as allows for powerful and interesting cards, the volume of new vocabulary for older pretty routine actions (such as making your opponent choose things, permanents entering the graveyard from anywhere, interacting with your opponent or their cards, or exiling cards from your graveyard to pay a cost) can feel incomprehensible and overwhelming at times. There's a reason "whenever you cast a noncreature spell" has bever been erattaed to "whenever you exhibit your prowess"
Thanks for reading! Have a great day.


The reasons for the vocabulary increase in the type of effects you’re talking about is the result of solving a core problem. Commander has become the most played tabletop format. In order to hit a threshold that a theme is playable in Commander, it has to appear on more cards than can possibly fit in a single set. In fact, more that can fit in three sets (so even a return to blocks wouldn’t solve this problem.) The solution is to play into themes that are backwards compatible. At first, we just hit upon themes that Magic has been doing a long time (caring about card types, graveyard, typal, etc.). Eventually, though we start to both exhaust those and start to feel to repetitive. One of our solutions was discovered in Dominaria with historic. What we call batching. If we combo existing things, but in a flavorful combination, we create new backward compatible themes that haven’t yet been the core of decks. Yeah, you’ve made artifact decks and legendary decks, but none with those two effects, plus Sagas, combined. In order for batching to work, we need to give it a flavor to hold it together, and that requires vocabulary. The flavor also helps the mechanic feel organic to the set it’s in. In short, player preferences create new design challenges, and this trend is one of the things design is doing to meet those challenges.

Historic Batch Addition

New 06 Feb 2024 Asked by jacebeleren 35 Comments

would it make sense for the Battle type to get added to the "historic" batch (with legendaries, artifacts, and sagas)?


I don’t believe so.

Common Boardwipe Rules

New 18 Jan 2024 Asked by lavilledieu 22 Comments

Midweek magic on arena gave us a temporary historic pauper queue. I wanted to try out a classic dimir control deck but could not find something crucial to control decks, namely, a boardwipe. What is holding design back to print weird weak boardwipes like Taste of Death or Aetherize at common?


One of our rules about common cards is we try not to make 2 for 1’s.

Kinship Effects Expansion

New 06 Jan 2024 Asked by cursedereaper 21 Comments

How likely is it that we get more typal effects that are like Kinship (keyword) were the creature that gives the benefit checks for other creatures that share a creature type with it? The benefit would be that changing the creature type or adding creature types will allow use in other decks. E.g. my brother uses some goblins with Kinship and turns them into vampire. Would it be possible to put that into a batched word similar to "historic"/"Modified"


This is a good example of the design tension of making things more expandable vs. making them easier to understand. We err towards the latter, but will do the former if it has synergy with the larger structure of the set.

Prowess Errata Considerations

New 02 Jan 2024 Asked by tmdoublezero 27 Comments

Did WotC ever consider somewhat seriously errataing prowess to something like "Prowess - noncreature" and making the spelled out prowess clones into other kinds of prowess(eg "Prowess - Historic", Prowess -Artifacts)?


We haven’t seriously considered it.

Batching and Exceptions

New 21 Nov 2023 Asked by thunderweb 28 Comments

Does batching allow exceptions? (e.g. a legendary artifact saga with "this is not historic")


I don’t think that works in the rules.


Portions of Marodigest are unofficial Fan Content permitted under the Wizards of the Coast Fan Content Policy. The literal and graphical information presented on this site about Magic: The Gathering, including card images and mana symbols, is copyright Wizards of the Coast, LLC. Marodigest is not produced by or endorsed by Wizards of the Coast. All other content © 2024 Webscape Internet Engineers. All rights reserved.