Remove Enchantments

Complex Old Texts

A buddy and I have been doing this old school magic project and I jokingly recommended adding "Remove Enchantments" to my deck. After we both thought about it for a while, we came to the conclusion that the text does not really make sense. I know old cards can be unnecessary with their text but it seems like even the oracle text is overly specific. Why say you need to return Auras to your hand after specifying you need to return all your enchantments? I know you did not make cards at this time but I thought the overcomplication of older cards might be fun to think and/or talk about. Thanks for your time!

The original Legends design handoff is one of the oddest Magic set designs. Cards had text that kind of hinted at what the designers intended, but didn’t bother having actual rules text. The fact that this was the printed text kind of hints at this.

Auras Blogatog / Tumblr Card Printing Enchantments Legendary Creatures Remove Enchantments Rules Your Hand

Red's Ability to Remove Enchantments

If Red can't remove enchantments, why Wild-Magic Surge? Sure it gives an enchantment back but you're still getting rid of the enchantment that you want to get rid of. Can't see why Chaos Warp is a huge break but this is totally OK from a Color Pie perspective.

We talked a lot about this on the Council of Colors. Red is one of two colors of polymorphing (turning creatures into a different creature). Blue gets to make the change knowing what it turns into, while red does it randomly, so you don’t know what you’ll get.We’ve decided that red can extend polymorphing into other permanent types, but that it has to still be the same card type. It also can’t miss some of the time and not replace it. So, red is allowed (on rare occasion) to polymorph an enchantment into a random other enchantment (some of the time being another copy of the same enchantment). Chaos Warp broke two of these rules. 1) It could change enchantments into non-enchantments and 2) it could whiff and not replace it.

Blue Card Types Chaos Warp Color Pie Colors Council of colors Creatures Enchantments Polymorph Rares Red Remove Enchantments Rules Surge

Reason for Red's Weakness

I understand that each color having weaknesses is fundamental to magic, but I'm curious from a game design perspective why red specifically isn't able to destroy enchantments. Is is just that the general playstyle of red (aggro, direct damage) would be too strong if it could easily remove enchantments aimed at slowing it down?

Part of what makes the color pie work is that each color has inherent weaknesses forcing you to go to other colors from time to time. Red’s weakness to enchantments came from a more of a flavor place - red can’t blow stuff up that isn’t tangible.

Color Pie Colors Destroy Enchantments Flavor Game Design Power Level Red Remove Enchantments

Red's Potential for Removal

Re: Red enchantment removal, Commander 2018 gave red Enchanter's Bane, which doesn't directly remove enchantments but pressures players into sacrificing them unless they take damage. Is that something red might be able to eke its way into doing more of in the future (even if not specifically with enchantments)?

Sure.

Commander Enchanter's Bane Enchantments Red Remove Enchantments

Red's Enchantment Weakness

Why specifically can't red answer enchantments? It feels bad to play a mono red goblin token deck in Commander and having to essentially fold to a card like Ghostly Prison or Propaganda. I don't understand what weakness would be under minded if Red was able to remove enchantments. Every other color has outs to each permanent card type.

Red’s not good at destroying non-tangible things. You can’t blow up something ephemeral. Weaknesses are important because the give definition to the colors and encourage splashing of other colors.

Card Types Colors Commander Enchantments Ghostly Prison Goblin Red Remove Enchantments Tokens

Red's weakness to Enchantments

Also , WTF up with every color's weakness getting power creeped out except RED weakness to enchantments , ever thought about giving them blue's old feedback spell ? wouldn't let them remove enchantments , but i think it fits red's them to mana barb someone for casting enchantments. at least give mono red a way to interact with enchantments in some way. Thanks ... signed kid with 50+ shivan dragons and darkpacts =P

How about a red spell that lets you polymorph sn enchantment being cast into a different spell? : )

Dragon Enchantments Humor Mana Polymorph Red Remove Enchantments

Color Access to Stack Interaction

"If, by way of analogy, it was bad for the game that only green and white can remove enchantments, then isn’t it even worse for the game that only ONE color currently has access to stack interaction?Different abilities have a different footprint. Ability to interact with the stack is not on par with being able to interact with a specific type of permanent." Also other colors can (indirectly) interact with the stack - they can fizzle the spell by making target go away.

And there are also other stack interactions. Red can copy and misdirect, for instance.

Colors Enchantments Green Red Remove Enchantments The Stack White

Blue as the Only Counter-Spell

Why is blue the only color that can counter spells? If you aren’t going to remove them from the game altogether, then doesn’t the long-term health of the game demand that more colors have access to them? If, by way of analogy, it was bad for the game that only green and white can remove enchantments, then isn’t it even worse for the game that only ONE color currently has access to stack interaction?

Different abilities have a different footprint. Ability to interact with the stack is not on par with being able to interact with a specific type of permanent.

Blue Colors Enchantments Green Remove Enchantments Spells The Stack White

Color Weaknesses

It seems like green's weakness(needs creatures to remove creatures) isnt nearly as much of a weakness as red (absolutely can not remove enchantments) or black (absolutely can not remove artifacts). Is this a fair assessment?

No, for several reasons:1) The colors’ weaknesses are more complex than you’re describing them.2) Creatures play a larger role than artifacts or enchantments in the game, so the need to have an answer to deal with them is much greater. Thus, having a harder time dealing with creatures is a big deal.

Artifacts Black Colors Creatures Enchantments Green Red Remove Enchantments

Artifact and Enchantment Balance

I can understand why you want black to be Tertiary in dealing with enchantments, but artifacts have no tertiary color dealing with them. White, green, and red all have efficient, targeted, and even board wipe level removal of artifacts. Giving black only edict effects against opponent's enchantments almost feels as pointless as the time you gave red a punisher spell that could theoretically remove enchantments.

Artifacts and enchantments aren’t equal in their threat, so they don’t need to be equal in their response. We make more artifacts than enchantments, and at a higher as-fan, and many of the enchantments we do make are auras which can be removed by destroying the permanent its enchanting.

Artifacts As-fan Auras Black Colors Enchantments Green Red Remove Enchantments Tertiary White

Artifact Enchantment Distinction

To differentiate between (colored) artifacts and enchantments, do you think there will be tweaks between the colors that remove them? Currently there's a lot of overlap (artifacts get destroyed by naya, enchantments by selesnya)

We’re going to let black remove enchantments with some limitations. Other than that, nothing will be changing.

Artifacts Black Colors Enchantments Naya Naya (R/G/W) Remove Enchantments Selesnya (G/W)

Red Enchantment Buff

Good evening! I know red can’t remove enchantments, but would a red creature be able to get a buff if an opponent controls an enchantment? I love the flavour of creature just getting enraged at this thing they can’t smash so they smash other stuff harder!

That’s possible.

Creatures Enchantments Flavor Red Remove Enchantments

Artifacts vs Enchantments

"The difference between artifacts and enchantments is mostly flavor." If that's the case, why is it so much easier to mass remove enchantments (Back to Nature) than artifacts (Creeping Corrosion)? Given that artifacts are colorless and thus easier to cast and more ubiquitous, shouldn't it be the other way around (if there needs to be a difference at all)?

Right now three colors remove artifacts and only two remove enchantments. The best individual card, single or mass removal, will always change over time as different spells come in and out.

Artifacts Back to Nature Cast Colorless Colors Creeping Corrosion Enchantments Flavor Remove Enchantments Spells

Color-Specific Removal

Do you think it would be fine for colors to have access to removal not usually in that color, as long as it is noticeably worse when compared to other colors? Like a red spell that can remove enchantments, but its really mana intensive and it deals damage back to you, or something like that

No, I adamantly believe that would not be fine. Colors should not be able to do things they aren’t supposed to do.

Colors Enchantments Mana Red Remove Enchantments

Black's Limitations

When black is willing to pay any cost for power why is it unable to pay life of its player, or creature to remove enchantments?

Just because Black is willing to pay anything does not mean it’s able to do everything.

Black Creatures Enchantments Remove Enchantments

White's Weakness

So what's the weakness of White? You told us the B/R weakness of not being able to remove enchantments is easy to spot. You're right, I can't find it for White: White can destroy and even exile all card types (also lands on global scale). It gets small and large creatures. It even got the creature with the most keyword abilities on it. White even gets card draw (looking at you, Mentor of the Meek). I just can't find any weaknesses!

White has the weakest card advantage. The little card drawing it has is very narrow. Many of its threats have answers (aka can be undone). And it has a moralistic streak that makes it often reactionary. (It can’t permanently remove creatures easily unless the opponent messes with White first).

Card Draw Card Types Card Types Creatures Destroy Enchantments Keyword Abilities Keywords Lands Mentor Mentor of the Meek Rakdos (B/R) Remove Enchantments The Exile Zone White

Black's Enchantment Removal

What's the reason for blacks inability to remove enchantments? Is it because there's too many upside/downside black enchantments that would be too good if black could dismiss them at will?

Black’s favorite go-to weapon is death which can’t get rid of nonliving things. Mechanically, we like Black committing to enchantments than can get itself in trouble and don’t want to make it easy to get rid of them.

Black Enchantments Remove Enchantments

Black's Enchantment Removal

What is the flavor reason for why Black cannot remove enchantments from the battlefield?

They don’t die and death seems to be Black’s primary weapon.

Black Enchantments Flavor Primary Remove Enchantments

Green's Removal Abilities

Green is supposed to use its own creatures a way to remove other creatures. However, Theros has made it so green has straight creature removal thanks to its ability to remove enchantments. How do you justify this, but you hate that Anarchy and Chaos Warp let Red deal with enchantments?

Green has and always has had the ability to destroy enchantments. Enchantment creatures are thus vulnerable to green’s enchantment destruction much like artifact creatures are vulnerable to green’s artifact destruction. The only new thing added by Theros is the existence of enchantment creatures (barring Lucent Liminid which technically is from the future).

Artifacts Chaos Warp Creatures Destroy Enchantments Green Lucent Liminid Red Remove Enchantments Theros

Blue's Enchantment Handling

Flavor-Wise, why is blue unable to remove enchantments? It seems like with blue being the color that manipulates the fabric of magic itself they would be able to undo the ongoing magicks of enchantments.

Blue doesn’t destroy any permanent types. It can counter, bounce and steal them.

Blue Colors Destroy Enchantments Flavor Remove Enchantments