Giant Fan

Counters and Un-cards Rulings

New 01 Jun 2024 Asked by vaguelyof 20 Comments

Hello Mark, I have an un-rules question. Saw the Giant Fan came up recently and I've been considering it for a Cumulative Upkeep themed deck. Do counters referenced by keywords but not explicitly mentioned in the text count for Giant Fan? If I were to move a Velocity counter from Tornado onto a Herald of Leshrac, would that counter be turned into an age counter because Cumulative Upkeep refers to age counts implicitly, or would it be turned into a +1/+1 counter because the reference to age counter is not in the actual text but only in the comprehensive rules? My understanding from un-sets is that "rules text" usually only refers to the non-italicized oracle text in the text box of a card, but I'm not sure that's correct.


When Unsanctioned came out, we did an Oracle pass on the Un-cards. Giant Fan now cares about cards that “refer to” rather than caring specifically about rules text, so reminder text would matter. We’ve also ruled that if the counter is inherent to the card type, it will also get the counter, so using a Giant Fan to move a counter onto a planeswalker will get you a loyalty counter.

Proliferate Technology and Counter Types

New 01 Jun 2024 Asked by myheartgoesoontz 11 Comments

You could make an eternal Giant Fan variant that removes a counter from one thing and adds a counter to another *of a type that's already on it*, right? That's just Proliferate-adjacent technology which we've had for years. The issue only arises when you make the card able to care about arbitrary counters the card *might* be able to have?


Yes, you can create another of a counter already on a card. Understanding potential is much more difficult.

Legal Counter Movement

New 31 May 2024 Asked by deathworld12 17 Comments

nesting grounds is the tournament legal version of giant fan for anyone asking why isnt giant fan legal in tournamet formats.


Nesting ground just moves counters, which the rules can do. It’s the changing of the counters, and the caring about what counters a card uses that gets us to acorn/silver-border territory.

Adapting Counters in Acorn Cards

New 30 May 2024 Asked by lazcarno 22 Comments

"Put a counter on a card that adapts to the kind of counter the card refers to (such as Giant Fan) is also squarely in acorn territory." By which you mean, the rules can't handle it, not because it would be overpowered? I'm curious as to why that is.


The rules can’t handle it. It’s not overpowered. Being very powerful doesn’t keep you from being eternal.

Counter Type Change

New 29 May 2024 Asked by jozogozo 28 Comments

Is changing the type of counters on a permanent acorn territory?


Changing is acorn territory. The normal rules can remove a specific counter and then add a specific other counter. Doubling Season, and like effects, wouldn’t be triggered by the former and would by the latter.Put a counter on a card that adapts to the kind of counter the card refers to (such as Giant Fan) is also squarely in acorn territory.

Crossovers Opinion Evolution

New 28 Oct 2023 Asked by strix-soven 208 Comments

I just saw a collection of 7 screenshots from 2011 thru 2018 from this blog where you repeatedly shoot down the idea of doing mtg crossovers. You said "We think it's important that Magic is one cohesive game, and not a hodge podge of different things." This hurts to hear because it's verbatim sentiment that has been expressed to you about UB which you shot down as unreasonable, and you never addressed the contradiction. I know things change, but how can we trust what you say to us here?


I’ve never said anyone’s feelings are unreasonable. People can and should feel justified believing whatever they want. My goal on this blog is to share with you my best sense of where Magic design is at that moment. Often Magic moves in directions I can’t predict. If you asked me ten years ago, as many people actually did, I wouldn’t have predicted Universes Beyond. But now that I’m knee deep in it, and I’ve seen a lot of data based on the ones we’ve released, I’m a convert. I believe it is something that will bring lots of happiness to Magic players. For example, I was in a playtest for a Marvel set the other day and it was one of the most fun playtests I’ve had in years. I’m a huge fan of Marvel, and, obviously, a giant fan of Magic, so bringing those two loves together is quite joyful. It really hammered home to me the power of Universes Beyond. Trust is a thing to be earned, and I’ve worked hard for twenty-eight years to form a trust with the players. I’ve never lied to you, but I have said things that I didn’t think would happen that did. Saying something not knowing the future isn’t lying. I 100% believed the thing I said when I said it. Also, I always stress that I couch future talk with the mindset that I don’t use my future knowledge. If I know we’re doing thing X next month, I’ll act as if I didn’t know that when asked about it, because it’s important for me to not ruin the surprise of what’s to come. This is much more like not telling someone they’re having a surprise party than straight up lying, but yes, whatever you want to call it, me not ruining future surprises is something I do regularly on this blog, and I’m totally transparent that I do it.

Giant Fan's Effect

New 05 May 2022 Asked by yesterminute 22 Comments

Acorn question: Does a counter that gets moves onto another permanent with Giant Fan move onto the other permanent as the type of counter it is and then change into the second kind of counter, or does it get put onto the second permanent as the new type of counter? It'd matter for things like Hardened Scales.


It goes on the new permanent as the new type of counter.

Giant Fan and Reflecting Pool Compatibility

New 25 Apr 2022 Asked by admiralsmash-blog 16 Comments

Couldn't you make Giant Fan work in black border the same way Reflecting Pool does, "if an ability of the second permanent could produce any type of counter"?


Producing a type of counter is more complex than producing a color of mana.

Giant Fan Counter Interpretation

New 25 Apr 2022 Asked by arcanistlupus 26 Comments

Un-rules question. Giant fan refers to counters of any type referred to by the card the second permanent. What does this mean if a counter is moved onto Giant Fan?


The only counter type referenced on Giant Fan is a +1/+1 counter, so it would become that.

Giant Fan Rules Complexity

New 24 Apr 2022 Asked by americanlantern 48 Comments

Giant Fan is perhaps one of the most intuitive un cards. What are the chances the comprehensive rules could change to accommodate it in black border? What specifically makes that difficult?


This is one of those cards I tried to make it black border, couldn’t, and made in an Un-set. The normal rules can’t handle the second sentence. (“If the second permanent refers to any kind of counter, the moved counter becomes one of those counters.”) Here’s the closest I was able to get in a normal set:

Joke about Moving Counters

New 24 Apr 2022 Asked by the-machine-orthodoxy 54 Comments

When it comes to moving around counters, I'm a giant fan. : )


: )

On Giant Fan's Eternal Status

New 27 Dec 2021 Asked by ghostlygideon 21 Comments

Do you think Giant Fan would qualify as eternal if reprinted?


No, to the best of my knowledge, the rules can’t do the “make it any token type referenced”.

Understanding Counter Rules

New 27 Aug 2021 Asked by ebonstone 29 Comments

"Black border has to say what the counter becomes. It can’t make it something mentioned on the card like Giant Fan. That’s why it’s Un." I believe the OP was looking for a card like Nesting Grounds--without knowledge of Nesting Grounds.


Nesting Grounds moves a counter. It can’t change what the counter is. That was the issue.

Potential for Giant Fan Return

New 26 Aug 2021 Asked by prathin 21 Comments

Mark, I know we have Power Conduit, but could we see something like Giant Fan come to black boarder that effectively move other counter types? Or do you think with all the doubling effects now it would be problematic?


Black border has to say what the counter becomes. It can’t make it something mentioned on the card like Giant Fan. That’s why it’s Un.

Giant Fan and Counter Issues

New 19 Jul 2020 Asked by zanmor 25 Comments

Re: Giant Fan, black border can move counters and I think it can change the type of counter (or at least jump through a hoop or two to accomplish each of those things) so I imagine the problem you run in to is "If the second permanent refers to any kind of counter"? Does that seem fair?


That’s a big part of the problem.

Giant Fan in Black Border

New 19 Jul 2020 Asked by breawycker 20 Comments

Could Giant Fan work in black border?


Black border can do parts of it, but not all of it.

Moving Counters with Giant Fan

New 25 Apr 2020 Asked by midwestmtgjudge 25 Comments

Now that we have The Ozolith, can we get a black bordered Giant Fan that moves counters without converting them? That’s all I really wanted to do with Giant Fan in the first place.


We’ve made cards to move +1/+1 counters. What kind of counters are you wanting to move?

Rules Nerd on The Ozolith

New 07 Apr 2020 Asked by wilhelmscreamer 36 Comments

The wording on the ozolith really feels like it belongs in unstable, somehow giant fan feels more black boarder than it. Did it make the rules nerds in R&D explode?


Interestingly Giant Fan is the one that the rules have issue with. Turning a counter into a counter type referenced by the card it’s going on is easy to grok for humans, but messy inside the rules.

Silver Border Color Mechanics

New 24 Feb 2020 Asked by benrainbase 63 Comments

It’s my birthday! I was hoping to ask what the main mechanical gimmick each color had in Silver Border (like who is most likely to have die rolls or verbal components). Thanks!


Un’s color pie is a bit more complex than a simple answer here. Here’s dice:White - uses dice least, not a giant fan of chaos Blue - rerolls diceBlack - affects outcome of diceRed - rolls the most diceGreen - cares the most about dice being rolled

Politics in Commander

New 19 Oct 2019 Asked by gabecampos89 56 Comments

On politics in commander: people often associate politics with underhanded scheming and malicious intentions, but from political science pov, politics is any human interaction that accomplishes a collective goal. It doesn't have to be spoken. Communication often helps, some would say some of our worst political decisions were unspoken. But at a 4 player game, if someone is about to go off, even doing nothing is a collective decision that might accomplish a new game sooner.


Two things:1) People seem to be reading me as saying politics is bad. I’m not saying that. I think politics can add a fun, social level to a game, and there are games, like Diplomacy, where I really enjoy politics. I’m just trying to explain why I, personally, am not a giant fan of many multiplayer formats. It’s just a personal preference thing, not an indictment of it. And as Head Designer, I work hard with my team to make sure all our designs take Commander into account as it’s a very popular format.2) Poltics, from a gaming sense, is talking about how human interaction, silent and verbal, is used to influence game actions. If you’re playing a multiplayer format where players get to decide who to attack/target with spells, it has a political component. Once again, that’s not a bad thing. It’s just a description of what influences impact the game. It’s like me saying a game with dice rolling has randomization. It’s just me describing a game element not making commentary about it. (Again, me not liking it personally in one scenario isn’t me implying that it’s something that others aren’t supposed to enjoy.)


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