Has there ever been any thought to combining the Ox and Minotaur creature types? Such as simplifying both to simply "Cow?" I'm a huge fan of bovines in all forms and it would be nice if all of the Ox in magic worked alongside their more anthropomorphic cousins the Minotaur. As it is now we're lucky to really get cards of *either* type printed. There's resonance to the name Minotaur, no doubt, but it also has its share of baggage. It has Greek connotations and that's probably a big reason Minotaurs are almost strictly in Theros (although some favorites, such as Neheb, are from other planes). I was happy that Outlaws had more Ox cards, but it also highlights my dissatisfaction: Holy Cow is an *ox* not a cow, despite the name. It feels like a retread of the Hound or Naga debacle all over again. Hound was simplified to Dog and all Snakes, from rattlesnakes to Naga, are simply the type Snake now. This allows snakes and dogs of all walks benefit from a shared unity. Cats had it right, we didn't need Leonin as a separate type.I just feel like there's unnecessary separation being created by dividing Ox and Minotaur and it has the same resonance failings as all dogs being labeled "hounds" had. If it's important for a particular creature to *be* a minotaur then they can just *have* minotaur in their name, like ~30% of minotaurs already do. There's also the simple fact that Minotaur is a longer average creature type, limiting design space for other types to be included. It's hard to justify why a Minotaur is on a random plane, but much less so if it's simply a "Cow Warrior" for example. As for why I think "Cow" should just be the combined type name, I simply think it fits. Cow is a resonant name. Almost everyone, East to west, knows *of* cows if only because their milk is such a widely used commodity. We don't call it "Ox's milk" after all. More than that, it's fun! Cow is *funny* in the same way *squirrel* is funny. It's amusing to see "Squirrels you control" in this game full of fighting. In that vein, "Cows you control" is an amusing line that can help break up the seriousness of a setting. I know this is making a mountain out of a molehill, but magic is a game of different perspectives coming together and creating something new. Cows are my favorite animal and it's simply dissatisfying, to me, that my Holy Cow can't benefit from a Kragma Warcaller. That Angrath, colloquially named "Cow Dad" in the community, would have the creature type "Minotaur." The only downside I can see is that "Cow" *does* specifically refer to females of a bovine species. But that is a distinction few, if any, seriously take into consideration. If one sees a field of cows, they're not saying "I see lots of cows and 3 bulls!" They're going to say "I see cows!"So to bring the thesis back, has there been any discussion internally to simplifying the Minotaur and Ox creature types under a single banner, such as "Cow?" I would also happily settle for "Cattle" as the new type. I just feel the current Ox vs Minotaur divide has to go, for both flavor and mechanical reasons, and the sooner the better.

I have been on Team Cow (as I was on Team Dog) for many years. I even made Cows in Un-sets. I still believe Minotaur should be its own creature type though.

With viashino, naga, and cephalids becoming lizards, snakes, and octopi, I am a bit concerned for other humanoid animal based races. Will minotaur become ox? Will merfolk become fish? I'm very curious where you guys will draw the line on such things

The line is we’re not using names we made up for animal humanoids as creature types. (They’ll still be used in names and flavor text.) Pre-existing names from things like mythology are fine, so Minotaur and Merfolk aren’t going anywhere.

I like Ox. Cow feels like it’s a silly farm animal. I don’t want to think of ‘old McDonald had a farm’ when I’m playing Magic

You must be in the Boar over Pig camp as well. (Not me.)

I think it should be cattle, not ox or cow. Oxen and cows are specific kinds of cattle.

I tend to lean towards the vernacular. That’s why I’m pro-Cow.

Mark, I love OTJ, and how it uses the fauna, flora and folklore of North America to feel 'western'. Armadillos, Mountain Bighorn Sheep, Prairie Dogs, Buzzards, Coyotes, Roadrunners, Gila Monsters, Wolverines, Porcupines, Tumbleweeds (nevermind the Tumblewaggs), Beavers, Possums, Badgers, a knight riding a Moose, a battalion of various Cactus-folk and a Magic version of Paul Bunyan and his Blue Ox. Its like a roadtrip from my childhood through Wyoming, Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico and western Texas was condensed into a set, even the panning for gold at a tourist trap! All I'm left wondering is when can we return so we can get a card inspired by John Henry, the steel-driving man, and maybe an ornery bison or two.

Please dole out copious high fives to those who had the idea that this set needs a bunch of critters from the southwest and the Rocky Mountains to feel like a western setting.

High fives shall be applied.

MaRo can I point out that not all of Magic's minotaurs are oxen? Some are goat-headed, like Zedruu and the Anonkhet ones

A fine point.

Hey mark. There’s been some discourse the past few days about silliness in magic, brought on by OTJ spoilers, in particular the cards holy cow and loan shark. I would guess that most players like some amount of silliness in magic, even the ones who think they don’t. The issue is that it seems like a lot of people don’t like the baseline being too silly. If there was a card with the creature types ox angel, people would jokingly call it holy cow, without a doubt. Magic players like silly nicknames. Dr. Teeth, Young Peezy, Steve. All cards with normal names that players thought of nicknames for. There’s nothing wrong with some magic cards being jokes or self referential, but when the pun is THIS overt, it can feel like it’s gone too far for some people. Add onto that the fact that some people find the setting or abundance of legends to be somewhat tacky to begin with, and now you’ve made a set where some people feel like magic jumped the shark. Personally, I quite like the plane thunder junction flavorfully, and although it feels heavy on the legends, I can let that go to a degree because of the in universe reason. Holy Cow is definitely too silly for my taste though, and I would guess that’s the case for a lot of the people complaining.I just thought I’d give my perspective on it, and im curious to hear what you might have to say about it

Be aware, there’s an alternate universe where we didn’t name the card Holy Cow, and I have people mad at me that we missed the obvious name. Either choice makes some players unhappy, so we went with the choice that we thought would make the more players happy than unhappy. My poll (here and on Twitter) seems to poinyt towards that we did.

With Oxen getting more support as a creature type, was there any discussion on making Minotaurs into Ox similar to how the Orichi from Kamigawa are “snakes” or the Leonin are “cats”? Where do you typically set the line when mechanicaly defining a difference (if any) between “ animal people” and the related animal?

The rule is we use the animal word when there isn’t a well known term for it. Minotaurs are just more evocative than Ox people.

Bulls, oxen, and cows all get creature type ox, but that's like when all dogs got creature type hound. Can they correctly be unified as cattle instead?

I agree Ox isn’t great. Is Cattle the best choice?

If/when: a farm creatures commander to batch & support boars, goats, oxen, etc?

I assume when, but it requires the right set.