Shivan Gorge

Unique Land Effects

im response to the birthday trivia from earlier, how did Phyrexian Tower and Shivan Gorge end up with those effects and not ones like the other three?

There weren’t five permanent types at the time.

Birthday Lands Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Shivan Gorge

Gaea's Cradle Trivia

Tomorrow is my birthday and I was wondering if I could get some birthday trivia about my favorite card: Gaea’s Cradle?

Galea’s Cradle is part of a (loose) five card cycle, but many don’t realize what the black and red ones are. (Phyrexian Tower and Shivan Gorge.)Happy Birthday!

Birthday Black Gaea's Cradle Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Red Shivan Gorge

Urza's Saga Cycle Inquiry

RE: the Urza's Saga cycle of Tolarian Academy, Serra's Sanctum, and Gaea's Cradle: Were Shivan Gorge and Phyrexian Tower intended to be part of that cycle? Why are their abilities so different from the other three?

They were intended to be part of that cycle. Each color got a land. They didn’t all tap for mana. There weren’t (at the time) five permanent types.

Colors Gaea's Cradle Lands Mana Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Sagas Serra's Sanctum Shivan Gorge Tap / Untap Tolarian Academy Urza's Saga Urza's Saga

Color Allocation of Craddle Effects

Hello Mr. Rosewater, I've got a question, why was WUG given craddle like effects in Urza's saga while RB got phyrexian tower and shivan gorge? Those colors could have used a craddle effect for damage and cards in the graveyard, did these exist and were too broken or were never conceived?

It’s okay for some colors to have things other colors don’t.

Bant (W/U/G) Colors Mark Rosewater Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Rakdos (B/R) Sagas Shivan Gorge The Graveyard Urza's Saga Urza's Saga

Spitfire Bastion Inspiration

I was surprised to read that Spitfire Bastion was an updated version of Valakut -- it looked an awful lot like a Shivan Gorge to me.

It was inspired by both.

Shivan Gorge

Urza's Land Cycle

The Urza legendary land cycle also included Shivan Gorge and Phyrexian Tower, right?

Correct.

Lands Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Shivan Gorge Urza

Completing a Card Cycle

Has R&D ever thought about mechanically completing the cycle of Serra Sanctum, Gaea's Cradle, and Tolarian Academy? I understand Shivan Gorge and Phyrexian Tower were there, but they don't share the same type of ability.

There’s only five permanent types. Land would be way too powerful and Planeswalkers probably too weak. Plus they don’t properly tie to the remaining colors. So no, I don’t see us ever completing that “cycle”.

Colors Cycles Gaea's Cradle Game Design Lands Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Planeswalkers Power Level Shivan Gorge Tolarian Academy

Unbalanced Cycles

while I agree the boons are #1, what do you think is the SECOND most unbalanced cycle from top to bottom? I vote for Tolarian Academy vs. Shivan Gorge.

Oath of Druids to Oath of Mages is a contender.

Druid Oath of Druids Oath of Mages Shivan Gorge Tolarian Academy

Cycle's Black and Red Lands

What were the black and red ones in that cycle?

Black - Phyrexian Tower
Red - Shivan Gorge

Black Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Red Shivan Gorge

Lands Cycle Explanation

Was there originally a red land planned for the Gaea's Cradle- Cabal Coffers- Serra Sanctum- Tolarian Academy "cycle", or was the cycle accidental or never meant to be completed?

Urza’s Saga did have a cycle of lands that each referred to a specific color. The white, blue and green ones are more similar to one another than the black and red one. Here’s the cycle: White - Serra’s Sanctum Blue - Tolarian Academy Black - Phyrexian Tower Red - Shivan Gorge Green - Gaea’s Cradle

Black Blue Cabal Coffers Colors Cycles Gaea's Cradle Green Lands Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Red Sagas Shivan Gorge Tolarian Academy Urza White

Creatureless Set Concerns

When say that creatures are core to the game and would lead to bad limited environment. Why couldn't the set have lot direct damage cards and milling cards. Codex Shredder, the rack, lightning bolt, mind skulpt, millstone, cursed scroll, Shivan Gorge.

Let’s take direct damage. Okay, you have a deck full of direct damage without creatures. What are you going to do? With only one target (well, there’s technically also yourself), you’ll just aim all the spells at your opponent and they will aim theirs at you. Where’s the interaction? Where’s the compelling game play? It becomes a race to see who can draw and cast their direct damage first. Maybe, the first time, there’s a little but of novelty but I guarantee it will grow boring very quickly.

Cast Codex Shredder Creatures Cursed Scroll Game Play Lightning Bolt Limited Mill Millstone Shivan Gorge Spells The Rack

Urza's Saga Lands

Why were there no red or black lands in the Urza's Saga Academy / Cradle / Sanctum cycle? Though I can't think of anything that isn't too busted for the other colors - red taps for R for each land you have? Black taps for B for each creature in a graveyard?

There were black and red lands (Phyrexian Tower and Shivan Gorge) but they didn’t work the same way as the other three.

Black Colors Creatures Lands Phyrexian Phyrexian Tower Red Sagas Shivan Gorge The Graveyard Urza Urza's Saga

Modern Format Misconception

In retrospect, isn't describing Modern as a format in which cards with the modern card frame are legal a little misleading? After all, cards like Counterspell, Sol Ring, and Shivan Gorge all have printings in the modern frame, and yet are not legal in the format.

That’s why that isn’t how we describe it.

Card Frames Card Printing Counterspell Format Legality Modern Shivan Gorge Sol Ring